Josh Marshall reflecting on the "Obama health care = Nazi Germany" comparisons:
Most significant here is not the right-wing liars and demagogues making this stuff up but the fact that they've convinced a significant number of their followers that this stuff is true. That's a very dangerous situation.
We should also keep in mind that the birther-mania, as comical as it is on one level, is all part of the same fabric with the Hitler and Holocaust comparisons, an aggressive process of denigration and dehumanization, dressed up around claims about paperwork and places of birth, but all escalating and churning the belief of a minority of Americans that President Obama is not a legitimate president but rather a usurper.
It's always important for us to remember what the last eight years have again taught us, which is that America has a very strong civic fabric, one that can withstand, absorb and conquer all manner of ugly behavior. It can take in stride a lot of angry rhetoric, townhall fisticuffs and more.
But as this escalates we should continually be stepping back and thinking retrospectively from the vantage point of the future about where this all seems to be heading.
It's tempting, at times, to feel a little sorry for the right-wing mobs, made up of people who may not know better. They're convinced that fascism is upon us and competition between private and public insurers will mean the end of Western civilization. Clinton-era tax rates represent Soviet-style governing, and those FEMA concentration camps, staffed by ACORN volunteers, are right around the corner.
But the pity quickly dissipates when I see them applauding the clown comparing health care reform and the Holocaust. They may be victims of a right-wing con, but they also have a responsibility to at least give decency and critical thinking a try, and resist a mass movement that's more than a little dangerous.
Policy fights like the one we're watching unfold put their character on display, and it's not a pretty sight.
This was a townhall meeting conducted by a Republican congressman from South Carolina, Rep. Bob Inglis (R-SC), who opposes Obama's general plan for health care reform, so you would think there wouldn't be anything to protest from the teabaggers.
But nope — he went after the moron's sacred cow: Glenn Beck. The crowd revolted when Inglis told people to “turn the TV off” and stop listening to Glenn Beck. Watch it:
My friend Heather is understandably pround of her work with Girls Kick NutsGirls Fight Back, a personal safety/self-defense education group for women/girls. She's also understandably proud of her all-too-brief appearance in the GFB promo video.
Self-defense training is important. And it should only be taught by people who know what they're talking about.
The GFB girls seem to know not only how to defend themselves, but how to make good videos about defending yourself.
Unlike, say, these people, who had a hard time finding a good "attacker" for their demonstrations:
and my favorite….
I'm not sure if the last one is real or a spoof. I guess it's kinda creepy if it's real….
Everyone expected the unemployment numbers from last month to go up (it was 9.5% in June) to 9.6%, which is (on the whote) good, since that would mean that unemployment rate is going up at a slower late than previous months. That would, of course, mean that the recession is slowing down.
Didn't happen.
The unemployment rate went down….. that's the first time it's gone down in 15 months. In other words, the runaway train didn't just slow down (as analysts had predicted), it actually went in reverse.
There’s a famous Norman Rockwell painting titled “Freedom of Speech,” depicting an idealized American town meeting. The painting, part of a series illustrating F.D.R.’s “Four Freedoms,” shows an ordinary citizen expressing an unpopular opinion. His neighbors obviously don’t like what he’s saying, but they’re letting him speak his mind.
That’s a far cry from what has been happening at recent town halls, where angry protesters — some of them, with no apparent sense of irony, shouting “This is America!” — have been drowning out, and in some cases threatening, members of Congress trying to talk about health reform.
Some commentators have tried to play down the mob aspect of these scenes, likening the campaign against health reform to the campaign against Social Security privatization back in 2005. But there’s no comparison. I’ve gone through many news reports from 2005, and while anti-privatization activists were sometimes raucous and rude, I can’t find any examples of congressmen shouted down, congressmen hanged in effigy, congressmen surrounded and followed by taunting crowds.
And I can’t find any counterpart to the death threats at least one congressman has received.
So this is something new and ugly.
Indeed. Let's take a look at yesterday.
On his program, Rush Limbaugh took note of a town hall meeting in Tampa Florida, to be held yesterday evening. According to Media Matters' summary of that broadcast, Limbaugh read a report that "Rep. Kathy Castor (D-FL) scheduled a 'last minute' town hall event."
"This is what's happening," explained Rush, "Obama has mobilized union thugs to go out and also attend these town meetings to intimidate the genuine citizens out there who are upset about this." The implication here, we guess, is that "union thugs" aren't "genuine citizens." He added:
LIMBAUGH: Those are paid act — paid activists are going to be showing up. And that's why — so the Democrats are going to get brave now. They're going to have protection there. The mob's showing up. The real, genuine mob is showing up to defend these Democrats from the unruly Nazis that are showing up to protest the health care bill.
And what happened at that meeting last night? The teabaggers drowned out discussion. You can see it for yourself starting about two minutes into this video clip.
And then it got worse In addition to the vocal disruptions, there were some reports of violence at the town hall. According to WTSP, the Tampa CBS affiliate:
Violence at Tampa health care forum
Tampa, Florida – Angry protesters and strong supporters are clashing inside and all around a health care reform town hall meeting in Downtown Tampa. The meeting which was scheduled to begin at 6:00 at the Children's Board of Hillsborough County drew hundreds of people who quickly began to overwhelm staff and event organizers at the front entrance.
As the building filled to capacity, angry protesters stuck outside began to scream, yell, and chant. At one point, those trying to get inside began banging on windows as Tampa Police officers quickly spread out guarding all entrances.
10 Connects photojournalist Kevin Carlson, currently inside the meeting reports at least one fist fight breaking out inside. Some other journalists remain outside.
Rush also took umbrage with Nancy Pelosi's comment that there were swastiksa appearing in the angry mobs at some of these townhall protests. Unfortunately…
….it's true.
There are further reports of violence, especially from St. Louis. Details are sketchy, but it appears that a lot of protesters were prevented from attending the town hall meeting, held in a small venue. When to SEIU employees were then admitted (SEIU was a sponsor, as they were in a NH meeting, where a 9 month pregnant SEIU staffer got harrasssed), that provoked the teabag contingent outside.
St. Louis County police arrested six people, including a Post-Dispatch reporter, during a demonstration Thursday evening outside a forum on aging called by U.S. Rep. Russ Carnahan, D-St. Louis.
Three people were arrested on suspicion of assault, two for interfering and one for peace disturbance – all misdemeanors, said St. Louis County Police spokesman Rick Eckhard.
"You've got to understand — we're at a very volatile situation, we've got 800 people and we've got to maintain order," Echkard said. "They did what they had to do."
One man, a conservative protester was injured.
Spitz said she won't be returning to any such meetings anytime soon.
"These tea baggers are dangerous," she said. "I'm not going to any more town hall meetings until these people calm down."
Kenneth Gladney, 38, a conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with "Don't tread on me" printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room at St. John's Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was awaiting treatment for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack.
Some conservative blogs are using the injury of Gladney (who is black) to make the allegation that people who support health care are "racist"… a rather bizarre charge since Gladney's assailant was also black.
The bottom line is that the teabagging protesters came angry and ready to fight. And now that they're getting some pushback, the whole thing is getting seriously out of control.
About healthcare reform.
Where do I weigh in?
Look, I don't have problems with civil disobedience, protests, etc. That doesn't bother me (although, of course, I don't think violence on any side helps anybody). What troubles me about the teabagging opposition isn't their opposition per se, but that it is a movement against healthcare reform which offers nothing. Their slogan — literally — is "just say 'no'".
But even that pales in comparison to the opposition's outright lying (or, at the grassroots level, believing the lies). The insurance industry and status quo lobbiest have played the fearmongering card so skillfully, that it stifles reasonable debate. How can you listen (or better yet, educate) someone who literally believes that Obama wants to euthanize senior citizens? How can you reason with people addicted to unreasonableness?
WaPo columnist Steven Perlstein,normally a mild-mannered guy, writes about this, in an article which really deserves the full read-through treatment. Here's how he starts:
As a columnist who regularly dishes out sharp criticism, I try not to question the motives of people with whom I don't agree. Today, I'm going to step over that line.
The recent attacks by Republican leaders and their ideological fellow-travelers on the effort to reform the health-care system have been so misleading, so disingenuous, that they could only spring from a cynical effort to gain partisan political advantage. By poisoning the political well, they've given up any pretense of being the loyal opposition. They've become political terrorists, willing to say or do anything to prevent the country from reaching a consensus on one of its most serious domestic problems.
There are lots of valid criticisms that can be made against the health reform plans moving through Congress — I've made a few myself. But there is no credible way to look at what has been proposed by the president or any congressional committee and conclude that these will result in a government takeover of the health-care system. That is a flat-out lie whose only purpose is to scare the public and stop political conversation.
Under any plan likely to emerge from Congress, the vast majority of Americans who are not old or poor will continue to buy health insurance from private companies, continue to get their health care from doctors in private practice and continue to be treated at privately owned hospitals.
The centerpiece of all the plans is a new health insurance exchange set up by the government where individuals, small businesses and eventually larger businesses will be able to purchase insurance from private insurers at lower rates than are now generally available under rules that require insurers to offer coverage to anyone regardless of health condition. Low-income workers buying insurance through the exchange — along with their employers — would be eligible for government subsidies. While the government will take a more active role in regulating the insurance market and increase its spending for health care, that hardly amounts to the kind of government-run system that critics conjure up when they trot out that oh-so-clever line about the Department of Motor Vehicles being in charge of your colonoscopy.
And he ends:
The Republican lies about the economics of health reform are also heavily laced with hypocrisy.
While holding themselves out as paragons of fiscal rectitude, Republicans grandstand against just about every idea to reduce the amount of health care people consume or the prices paid to health-care providers — the only two ways I can think of to credibly bring health spending under control.
When Democrats, for example, propose to fund research to give doctors, patients and health plans better information on what works and what doesn't, Republicans sense a sinister plot to have the government decide what treatments you will get. By the same wacko-logic, a proposal that Medicare pay for counseling on end-of-life care is transformed into a secret plan for mass euthanasia of the elderly.
Government negotiation on drug prices? The end of medical innovation as we know it, according to the GOP's Dr. No. Reduce Medicare payments to overpriced specialists and inefficient hospitals? The first step on the slippery slope toward rationing.
Can there be anyone more two-faced than the Republican leaders who in one breath rail against the evils of government-run health care and in another propose a government-subsidized high-risk pool for people with chronic illness, government-subsidized community health centers for the uninsured, and opening up Medicare to people at age 55?
Health reform is a test of whether this country can function once again as a civil society — whether we can trust ourselves to embrace the big, important changes that require everyone to give up something in order to make everyone better off. Republican leaders are eager to see us fail that test. We need to show them that no matter how many lies they tell or how many scare tactics they concoct, Americans will come together and get this done.
If health reform is to be anyone's Waterloo, let it be theirs.
Right on. And Obama needs to realize that this is one issue where bipartisanship simply ain't going to happen. He's the President; he has the majority in Congress. It's time to get the healthcare that people elected him to get. If the Republicans want to stifle all debate and rachet up the decibel levels, while lying to the American people, let them. We should pass health care without them.
UPDATE: A woman goes to a healthcare town meeting in Wisconsin; speaks up as "just a mom" — turns out, not so much. She was vice-chairman of the Kewaunee County GOP until 2008. She actually worked for Kagen's opponent, and, according to her own resume, is affiliated with the Republican National Committee.
g.powell: But the right-wing crazies really believe this stuff about "kill granny". My father is one of them. He moved up the schedule of some elective surgeries at the VA because he is convinced Obama is out to kill him.
Anonymous: Wow g. powell. Now that's what I call irony! Moving up surgery within a govt run health care system (the VA) because govt-run health care is so scary.
g.powell: It's worse than that, my dad hates the idea of socialized medicine — it would be a disaster for the country — but loves the VA. Don't ask me to explain. I have thousand of these stories. The laws of physics and logic behave differently in Crazyland.
What started as a fan letter to John Hughes turned into a two-year penpal relationship for Alison Byrne (now Alison Fields). They corresponded often from 1985-1987. At one point, Hughes wrote:
"You've already received more letters from me than any living relative of mine has received to date. Truly, hope all is well with you and high school isn't as painful as I portray it. Believe in yourself. Think about the future once a day and keep doing what you're doing. Because I'm impressed. My regards to the family. Don't let a day pass without a kind thought about them."
In 1997, as an adult, Allison was working in North Carolina on a diversity education project, and had sent a short training film she had made to John Hughes, with whom she had no contact for ten years. She didn't know what response, if any, he would have.
But she was surprised. He called her, and they talked for an hour.
John told me about why he left Hollywood just a few years earlier. He was terrified of the impact it was having on his sons; he was scared it was going to cause them to lose perspective on what was important and what happiness meant. And he told me a sad story about how, a big reason behind his decision to give it all up was that "they" (Hollywood) had "killed" his friend, John Candy, by greedily working him too hard.
He also told me he was glad I had gotten in touch and that he was proud of me for what I was doing with my life. He told me, again, how important my letters had been to him all those years ago, how he often used the argument "I'm doing this for Alison" to justify decisions in meetings.
John Hughes, the producer, writer and director whose 1980s films such as "Sixteen Candles," "The Breakfast Club" and "Some Kind of Wonderful" offered a sharp-eyed look at teenagers and their social habits, has died, according to a statement from his representative. He was 59.
Hughes died of a heart attack while taking a morning walk in Manhattan, according to the statement.
No, he will never go down as one of the most austere artistes, but his films mirrored an entire generation and are classics.
Five years ago, Moveon.org invited people to post their own homemade ads for the 2004 presidential campaign and submit them anonymously.
Some unknown person, out of over 1,500 submissions, put together an ad comparing Bush to Hitler, and put it on the MoveOn.org site without the group's knowledge. MoveOn pulled the submission. But it was too late.
The conservatives had a hissy-fit. Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee, at the time called the anonymously submitted video "the worst and most vile form of political hate speech." Traditional news outlets ran with this, charactering MoveOn as being extremists.
That was all in response to a video submission from an anonymous person.
Contrast that to the present day.
Today — just today — Rush Limbaugh told his audience, "Adolf Hitler, like Barack Obama, also ruled by dictate."
Around the same time today, Glenn Beck tried to link health care reform to Nazis.
So will some please explain to me why — a mere 5 years ago — an unknown person makes a Bush-Hitler reference, and it causes a firestorm…. but today, prominent conservatives and GOP party leaders can routinely make Nazi comparisons and nobody cares?
I think this is his second one, and I find them to be very good, if only because he echoes things I've been saying lately. I hope he does more. Some excerpts:
Columbia, SC: In honor of Twitter's down period, I think all responses should be made in 140 characters or less.
Ezra Klein: I am very tempted to do this. But I will not. Questions, however, should definitely be under 140 characters!
_______________________
New Haven, Conn.: Ezra, what do you make the most recent CNN poll on health care reform that showed a generational divide between those who want reform (the under-50s) and those who don't (the over-50s)? Given that the over-50s are about to benefit from government-run health care in the form of Medicare, I find their (overall) hypocrisy amusing.
Ezra Klein: America's elderly effectively live in Canada. They have single-payer health care. They have a government-run, defined benefit pension plan. And they like it. Their opposition is a funny kind of opposition: They're not worried that the government is going to take over health care. They're worried that they're going to lose their government-provided health care.
I wrote a longer post on this the other day, and I'm just going to copy my conclusion from there. Generally speaking, people who oppose health-care reform are worried we're going to end up with something like what Canada has. Not seniors. They have something like what Canada has (Canada, in fact, also calls their health insurance program "Medicare"). And they like it. They report higher rates of satisfaction with their health care than do people in employer-sponsored insurance. They're worried, rather, that they might end up with something like what the rest of America has. And having spent time in both Medicare and private health insurance, they don't want that. They don't want that at all.
This means, of course, that they oppose health-care reform in uncommonly high numbers because they're concerned about changes to their situation. But for the rest of us, it should serve as a pretty good argument for heath-care reform, and particularly for something like Medicare-for-All.
_______________________
Re: Cash For Clunkers: Ezra, I don't understand the Republican criticism (but when do I ever?) to this program, calling it a boondoggle because it already needs more money.
If my local store decides to boost sales with a special promotion and they clear the shelves of product, why is that a bad thing? Don't you think their parent company would agree to give them more resources to keep the promotion going so they could sell more stuff?
I thought the Republicans understood capitalism.
Ezra Klein: It's been confusing. There's a legitimate criticism of cash for clunkers that it doesn't do enough to force the purchase of high-mileage, environmentally friendly vehicles. But it's hard to say that a bill that was meant to kickstart car sales is failing because it has kickstarted car sales.
_______________________
Alexandria, Va.: What do you make of the angry elderly town hall attendees complaining about government paid health care? How many of them would give up Medicare? How many veterans would give up the VA system?
Ezra Klein: Just about none of them. Satisfaction in both the VA and the Medicare are higher than in private insurance.
_______________________
Silver Spring, Md.: Found out that my congresswoman Donna Edwards is having a health care town hall this evening at 6 at the Oxon Hill library. Given that she's a liberal black woman and outspoken in favor of a public option (and who would favor single payer) I'm a little worried about right-wing astroturfers showing up and getting way, way out of hand. What could those of us who support her do to help, do you think?
The Smart Measure Cup does unit conversions, can be pre-set for recipe amounts which will “beep” once you reach them, and the built in cup can be removed for easy cleaning to keep the LCD safe from getting wet.
Hey, I like cool gadgets just as much (if not more) than the average guy, but I really seemed to be doing just fine with the regular 59 cent tin measuring cup I've had since college.
Rep. Gerry Connolly (Va.), president of the freshman Democratic class, warned that right-wing groups are taking things to "a dangerous level" by manufacturing anger based on false information.
"When you look at the fervor of some of these people who are all being whipped up by the right-wing talking heads on Fox, to me, you're crossing a line," Connolly said. "They're inciting people to riot with just total distortions of facts. They think we're going to euthanize Grandma and the government is going to take over." […]
Connolly said he spoke to at least one freshman Democrat who was physically assaulted at a local event. [emphasis added]
True? No clue who that "freshman Democrat" might be, but it's not a stretch given that we've already seen other types of behavior from the mobs:
And this morning, a couple more violent-tendency acts cen be added to the list:
At a “Freedom Conference” meeting earlier this week, Rep. Todd Akin (R-MO) mentioned that some Democratic lawmakers were almost “lynched” by angry protesters around the country at town hall meetings. In response, the crowd loudly laughed and applauded.
Rep. Brad Miller (D-NC) will not be hosting any town hall events this August — instead, he's making himself available to constituents for one-on-one meetings about health care reform — and at least part of the reason is this: His offices have received threatening phone calls, including at least one direct threat against his life. "We had no town hall events scheduled for the August recess anyway, but in light of everything that's happened — we have received a threatening phone call in the D.C. office, there have been calls to the Raleigh office," said Miller communications director LuAnn Canipe, in an interview with TPM. The threatening call in question happened earlier this week.
RNC Chariman Michael Steele is either clueless or lying when he says his party is not involved with those who use intimidation tactics to stifle public discussion.
"We're not inciting anyone to go out and disrupt anything," said Steele. "We're not organizing the town halls," only encouraging individuals to visit their congressman or senator to "express their point of view."
"There's no upside for the Republican Party [in the protests]," he said later in the call. "That's not something that's coordinated or deliberately set in motion by me or anyone in the state party.
"…To sit back and say this is a Republican cabal is a bunch of baloney. And you can substitute that 'b' for something else if you want."
Steele added that Republicans "are not encouraging people to be angry to the point of being brutish and ugly."
Oh, they're not?
Sorry, but the mobs have been cheered on every step of the way by elected Republican leaders. You've got no less that the House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), gleefully praising the right-wing "backlash," and promising a "long, hot August" for Democrats. His office blatently promoted the mob attacks again yesterday.
Then you've got the NRCC publicizing "Recess Roastings," promoting the notion that, as Republican leaders boast, town-hall meetings have become "town-hell" meetings.
Will this work?
I think it will motivate the GOP base. It won't win any converts to the party though. In fact it might lose some. Exhibit A is the Napa Valley Register — a conservative newspaper — which ran an interesting editorial on a mob screamfest yesterday:
The display was unwelcome — and unsuccessful if it was meant to move health care reform supporters toward considering the concerns of the critics. Several callers to the Register on Tuesday reported they were repulsed by the aggressive tactics of some members of the crowd. [emphasis added]
To the degree the catcalls, chants and shouts were organized — and it appears from events around the country that they were — we strongly suggest that the organizers find more constructive ways to get their message out.
The crowd was so disrespectful that one frustrated attendee said he had come to the town hall with the intention of giving Rep. Green “a really hard time,” but changed his mind because he was fed up with another man who was “screaming behind my head for the last hour.”
Still, there's no reason why people who support healthcare reform shouldn't fight back.
UPDATE:Glenn Beck seems to know what's coming, and is trying to innoculate himself:
Well now, let me give the warning to you: If anyone thinks that it would be a good idea to turn violent, think again. It would destroy the Republic. I feel it with everything in me. There is a great reason for hope right now. Because, I am telling you, for the first time — since I started saying this in the last couple of years — for the first time I know it, I feel it, the American people are starting to wake up.
These people in Washington have no idea what they have done. They have wakened a sleeping giant. But just one lunatic like Timothy McVeigh could ruin everything that everyone has worked so hard for, because these people in Washington won't pass up the use of an emergency.
Look how the media ran with the abortion-doctor killing. They tried to pin that despicable act on Fox in general and specifically, Bill O'Reilly and me! The only thing either of us have ever said is there's no reason for that, ever.
Dave Neiwart responds:
Sorry, Glenn, but that isn't the only thing either of you have ever said. O'Reilly also happened to refer to Dr. Tiller as a "baby killer" nearly thirty times, and accused him of mass murder as well as running "an abortion mill" where he had "aborted 60,000 fetuses." He even mused aloud about someone taking him out.
Sure, you can add a disclaimer at the end telling people never to commit violence. But coming at the tail end of an endless litany of incendiary demonization, that's pretty weak tea as lame excuses go.
